Curse

boarderx · Sep 02, 2008, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by eximiis

And how would u maintain SF without Glyph from the ele profession ??

its doable with consumables but for a 10min run it doesnt seem worth it, if there is another way it'd be great to know

Dante the Warlord · Sep 02, 2008, 01:49 PM // 13:49

Use candy corn i guess... raises ur attributes for 10 mins should be enough time and it a CHEAP con

lordheinous · Sep 02, 2008, 05:42 PM // 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante the Warlord

Use candy corn i guess... raises ur attributes for 10 mins should be enough time and it a CHEAP con

You still wouldn't be able to reduce the recharge time enough, deadly paradox only brings it to 40 seconds. Not to mention the energy problems you would have on a war-with only 2 pips of energy regen, you'd only be getting 20 energy every 30 second Shadow Form cycle, and even with essence, you'd still be spending 25 energy on deadly paradox and sf every cycle, so you'd run out of energy pretty fast, and even faster if you actually dared to use things such as running buffs or iau. So, basically, you'd be wasting 2 cons on a runner that probably couldn't make the run.

Mr. Undisclosed · Sep 02, 2008, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sin City Gamer

Only problem there is that would be 4 PvE only skills on the bar. I think the Wards are pretty much the core of the build (it's meant to support the eles, not cause much damage on its own) so they both should stay. That being said, either CoP or EN are useless onthier own. CoP w/o a hex = crappy interrupt AND degen in HM = pointless

Not a bad idea, just don't think it works on this bar.

Ah, true. Don't know what I was thinking at the time of that post.

mathiastemplar · Sep 02, 2008, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by d_fens

Could you post a build? As a warrior i'm not welcome into PUGs doing this "farm". You did this with H/H ?

Shadow Form, I Am Unstoppable, Deadly Paradox, Sig of Stamina, Endure Pain... ??

Thanks

can't post build atm.. but its quite simple.
btw, i did the run in NM.
If ur running it right, it's easy to reach Thommis with the 25sec+20% SF. You just have to wait a couple of seconds for SF to recharge, between mobs.
u got 2 monks(hench-prot/heal) mesmer and fireele hench. I used Gwen (with Ignorance) Zhed and Vekk (SH)
just pull Thommis to wall.
using SF, Signet of stamina, Sprint, dark escape, Feigned Naturally, Endure pain, deaths charge, and Shadow Refuge.
Easy - gl

gerg-nad · Sep 02, 2008, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Well still not gotten the Voltaic, but some other good stuff.

Key thing for folks that don't know this type of team is for the damage dealers to stay out of aggro until it gathers on the Sin (tank). What we do is have the tank (Sin) say "GO" when the aggro has settled on him. Then the damage dealers come in to drop bombs on the group and then we finish the rest off. This little bit of waiting and staying out of aggro while the it settles on the Sin can be the difference between a slow death filled run and a fast run. If the foes go after the soft group in the back, they will be damaged and potentilly die. So waiting for the aggro to settle on the Sin is what allows only one monk to be used and faster killing. We only bring one monk and run 2-5 minutes in HM. Biggest issue has been lag, some inexperience players, and some afks.

Regarding the team:
Damage dealers can vary quite a bit, but generally Eles should have [meteor shower] and [savannah heat] and mesmers [ether nightmare] and [cry of pain] both with [arcane echo]. Key is to come up after the sin says "go" and no ealier, drop rocks and other big hitters. Team PvE aid skills are also great aid to teams, so one of each of these should be on the team, [ebon battle standard of honor][ebon battle standard of wisdom] and for fire ele team [mark of rodgort]

Also skills like ["You Move Like a Dwarf"] and [deep freeze] can be usful for the clean up to keep things near the wall. On clean up the key is not to let the Marksman loose aggro as you will unlikely be able to bring him back close enough to the wall to re-establish aggro as he uses a long bow. If you do loose him, best to get him as close as possible with another group and try to spash damage him by a nearby foe to re-establish aggro with folks behind the wall and then have them back up to lure him close enough to do damage.

Monk should have [Unyielding Aura][Protective Spirit][Heal Party] coupled with some other fast casting heals.

The support generally should have spirits, with [frozen soil][edge of extinction][brambles] and usually [lacerate] and [primal echoes] or [predatory season]. I find a necro secondary can often be more usual than a Rit secondary, as the Necro will provide energy with [blood ritual] and use of wells, such as [well of blood] or possibly [well of the profane] (but not both because of attribute thinning), to use up bodies and minimize minions. We rarely have a death, so taking down Frozen Soil with [gaze of fury] is usually not an issue. A fast casting well, like Well of Blood, uses up the bodies before the Contaminators can create minions, which helps the Sin stay alive, as Explosive Growth and Death Nova ignore Shadow Form, so the Sin will take spike damage from minions, which is why the monk keeps [protective spirit] on the Sin as long as there are minions arround. Having less minions also will help once the wall is down.

AOD_EaSyKiLL · Sep 03, 2008, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerg-nad

Well still not gotten the Voltaic, but some other good stuff.

Key thing for folks that don't know this type of team is for the damage dealers to stay out of aggro until it gathers on the Sin (tank). What we do is have the tank (Sin) say "GO" when the aggro has settled on him. Then the damage dealers come in to drop bombs on the group and then we finish the rest off. This little bit of waiting and staying out of aggro while the it settles on the Sin can be the difference between a slow death filled run and a fast run. If the foes go after the soft group in the back, they will be damaged and potentilly die. So waiting for the aggro to settle on the Sin is what allows only one monk to be used and faster killing. We only bring one monk and run 2-5 minutes in HM. Biggest issue has been lag, some inexperience players, and some afks.

Regarding the team:
Damage dealers can vary quite a bit, but generally Eles should have [meteor shower] and [savannah heat] and mesmers [ether nightmare] and [cry of pain] both with [arcane echo]. Key is to come up after the sin says "go" and no ealier, drop rocks and other big hitters. Team PvE aid skills are also great aid to teams, so one of each of these should be on the team, [ebon battle standard of honor][ebon battle standard of wisdom] and for fire ele team [mark of rodgort]

Also skills like ["You Move Like a Dwarf"] and [deep freeze] can be usful for the clean up to keep things near the wall. On clean up the key is not to let the Marksman loose aggro as you will unlikely be able to bring him back close enough to the wall to re-establish aggro as he uses a long bow. If you do loose him, best to get him as close as possible with another group and try to spash damage him by a nearby foe to re-establish aggro with folks behind the wall and then have them back up to lure him close enough to do damage.

Monk should have [Unyielding Aura][Protective Spirit][Heal Party] coupled with some other fast casting heals.

The support generally should have spirits, with [frozen soil][edge of extinction][brambles] and usually [lacerate] and [primal echoes] or [predatory season]. I find a necro secondary can often be more usual than a Rit secondary, as the Necro will provide energy with [blood ritual] and use of wells, such as [well of blood] or possibly [well of the profane] (but not both because of attribute thinning), to use up bodies and minimize minions. We rarely have a death, so taking down Frozen Soil with [gaze of fury] is usually not an issue. A fast casting well, like Well of Blood, uses up the bodies before the Contaminators can create minions, which helps the Sin stay alive, as Explosive Growth and Death Nova ignore Shadow Form, so the Sin will take spike damage from minions, which is why the monk keeps [protective spirit] on the Sin as long as there are minions arround. Having less minions also will help once the wall is down.

QFT

As a sin runner on these, it is really annoying when I tell people, "Stay out of aggro till I ping", and yet they are all nuking as soon as they can. Then 10 seconds later, all the mobs are stuck at the far wall. Now the run has doubled or tripled in time, because I have to go coax those mobs to re-aggro.

I also hate it when nukers bitch at me for running around trying to re-aggro, or to entice the rangers closer, because they cant nuke the worthless minions around me. Even after I tell them to forget about the damn minions and nuke the summit.

Also, for monks, don't rez the sin when 90% of the mob is still around, because he wont be able to cast his Perma chain for several seconds while he waits for eng to regen, unless you plan on keeping him alive during the wait.

Another tip for nukers, if you take echo, use it on MS, so that mobs keep getting kd' instead of running away.

Another note, take some alcohol and give it to the sin if he does a good job (unless of course he is charging you) but it is a good, cheap tip (IMO), if he is using Dwarven.

Also, If you are a sin runner, and you can't make it to Slavers without dying, go freaking practice some more.

Nightow · Sep 03, 2008, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Just to add above.... if you are the runner, make sure you actually do call! Seen plenty of sins just stand there, expecting us to nuke.

germanturkey · Sep 03, 2008, 04:31 AM // 04:31

be nice to your sin and give them stuff :P

anyways, i've probably done this collectively for 15+ hours over the last few days and i haven't even SEEN one drop yet..

falling2grey · Sep 03, 2008, 04:47 AM // 04:47

Done it little over 100 hundred times since he first posted this. I had only one drop for me, and that was on my 101st run. On the very next run someone else got a spear. And the 3rd spear I saw drop at around 70-75 runs. So After 104 runs, 3 total voltaic drops.

ALF71BE · Sep 03, 2008, 04:54 AM // 04:54

Yeah, we know, the drop rate is ridiculous low.

However, there are so many people farming it that maybe even constantly, one drops.

d_fens · Sep 03, 2008, 06:49 AM // 06:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by mathiastemplar

can't post build atm.. but its quite simple.
btw, i did the run in NM.
If ur running it right, it's easy to reach Thommis with the 25sec+20% SF. You just have to wait a couple of seconds for SF to recharge, between mobs.
u got 2 monks(hench-prot/heal) mesmer and fireele hench. I used Gwen (with Ignorance) Zhed and Vekk (SH)
just pull Thommis to wall.
using SF, Signet of stamina, Sprint, dark escape, Feigned Naturally, Endure pain, deaths charge, and Shadow Refuge.
Easy - gl

Thanks m8, I'll definitely try this... Just for the challenge... never liked VS skin

Masacru Ak · Sep 03, 2008, 08:20 AM // 08:20

Pathetic more then 100 runs with my sin ......and no Vs yet i can't belive it . Oh well must go again but THANKS FOR the guy who posted this

respect

R.Shayne · Sep 03, 2008, 12:25 PM // 12:25

I would like to add something as well. Could the nukers please stop concentrating on Thommis! The warders are you primary targets because they are the only ones that can damage the nukers. Then go for the Defenders, Summoners, and others. If the permasin knows what they are doing Thommis will be stuck in a corner the whole time. I am so tired of runs taking 10+ minutes because the nukers are only concentrating on Thommis and scattering everything else.

english storm · Sep 03, 2008, 01:42 PM // 13:42

finish him is also a handy skill for the ranger to bring. It's great to use on that last Marksman just before he runs away. The deep wound it causes is instant death if you use it at the right time.

Gin Cometh · Sep 03, 2008, 02:10 PM // 14:10

Have you seen those cheeky Assas asking for a fee ,i did last nite 200-1k.
Funny one sin i know for a fact is a CoF non payee scammer.

My input anyhoo, is it pointless to put Seed on the sin ?

snodaard · Sep 03, 2008, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by R.Shayne

I would like to add something as well. Could the nukers please stop concentrating on Thommis! The warders are you primary targets because they are the only ones that can damage the nukers. Then go for the Defenders, Summoners, and others. If the permasin knows what they are doing Thommis will be stuck in a corner the whole time. I am so tired of runs taking 10+ minutes because the nukers are only concentrating on Thommis and scattering everything else.

concentrate on tommis why ever concentrate.
if the nukers are good he will be dead within 5 seconds, then you can go on kill the wardens and everything else becouse your skills are recharged.

so there are two opsions here, or you have just been very unlucky with some noob nukers.
or the asssassin fails to pull the enemy's in the correct way.

Senrath · Sep 03, 2008, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gin Cometh

Have you seen those cheeky Assas asking for a fee ,i did last nite 200-1k.
Funny one sin i know for a fact is a CoF non payee scammer.

My input anyhoo, is it pointless to put Seed on the sin ?

Not entirely pointless. While most attacks won't hit them, they'll still take damage from Trample and Death Nova.

kess · Sep 03, 2008, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by snodaard

concentrate on tommis why ever concentrate.
if the nukers are good he will be dead within 5 seconds, then you can go on kill the wardens and everything else becouse your skills are recharged.

so there are two opsions here, or you have just been very unlucky with some noob nukers.
or the asssassin fails to pull the enemy's in the correct way.

thommis is not a boss, your skills won't recharge after killing him.

Anyway a deep freeze is a good skill to use.

The best team, fastest (3 mins or less for gate to open) is team consist of cop nukers. A good sin will bunch everybody up, then the ether nightmare mes will call target, then everybody else unleash the double cop on enemies

And I still don't understand why SH ele still favor over cop mes? I got called noob build and kick off the team because I'm not the typical ms/sh ele.

gerg-nad · Sep 03, 2008, 04:35 PM // 16:35

I typically like to have the critical positions, such as monk, part of my guild. We are often on Vent when we do these and it goes so much easier, as most things do with communication.

I am beginning to like Primal Echoes[primal echoes] as Thomis spams signets to keep alive and will go down faster with that spirit up. I like the team to have one of each of the following:
[mark of rodgort];[ebon battle standard of honor];[ebon battle standard of wisdom]
To slow the foes and slow them from running out of range from the wall these skill should also be on the team:
[deep freeze];[you move like a dwarf]
Another skill that good for the few left after the big pile is [finish him]

For a Fire Ele team here is close to an ideal:

[build prof=mo/e div=11+1 healing=12+1+3 Protection=6+1[unyielding aura][protective spirit][heal party][glyph of lesser energy][dwayna's kiss][ethereal light][dismiss condition][resurrect][/build]
[build prof=R/N beast=11+1 wilderness=12+1+3 blood=5 expertise=4+1][frozen soil][lacerate][brambles][edge of extinction][predatory season][troll unguent][blood ritual][well of blood][/build]
Ranger Option 2
[frozen soil][lacerate][brambles][edge of extinction][primal echoes][troll unguent][blood ritual][well of blood]

Or if you really need to have the Gaze of Fury on the Ranger, then
[unyielding aura][protective spirit][heal party][glyph of lesser energy][dwayna's kiss][ethereal light][dismiss condition][signet of rejuvenation]
[frozen soil][lacerate][brambles][edge of extinction][primal echoes][predatory season][gaze of fury][flesh of my flesh]

SH
[build prof=E/Me Fire=12+1+3 Energy=12+1][fire attunement][savannah heat][arcane echo][meteor shower][mindbender][arcane mimicry][you move like a dwarf][ebon battle standard of honor][/build]
[build prof=E/Me Fire=12+1+3 Energy=12+1][fire attunement][savannah heat][arcane echo][meteor shower][mindbender][arcane mimicry][deep freeze][ebon battle standard of wisdom][/build]
[build prof=E/Me Fire=12+1+3 Energy=12+1][fire attunement][savannah heat][arcane echo][meteor shower][mindbender][arcane mimicry][you move like a dwarf][mark of rodgort][/build]
Renewal (build is for practiced players)
[build prof=E/Me Fire=12+1+3 Energy=12+1 insp=6][fire attunement][glyph of renewal][arcane echo][meteor shower][mindbender][arcane mimicry][you move like a dwarf][Auspicious Incantation][/build]
[build prof=E/Me Fire=12+1+3 Energy=11+1 insp=6][fire attunement][you move like a dwarf][arcane echo][arcane mimicry][meteor shower][glyph of renewal][Auspicious Incantation][mindbender][/build]

Some good replacements for the Ele builds are the following:
[build prof=me/e fast=12+1 illusion=12+1+3][cry of pain][wandering eye][ether nightmare][signet of illusion][meteor shower][arcane echo][you move like a dwarf][auspicious incantation][/build]
[cry of pain][wandering eye][ether nightmare][signet of illusion][meteor shower][arcane echo][Empathy][auspicious incantation]

If taking a Necro, Ranger should go back to Rit secondary.
[feast of corruption][arcane echo][you move like a dwarf][necrosis][well of blood][weaken armor][blood ritual][blood renewal]
[spiteful spirit][arcane echo][you move like a dwarf][necrosis][well of blood][weaken armor][blood ritual][blood renewal]
[icy veins][arcane echo][you move like a dwarf][necrosis][Putrid Explosion][well of the profane][blood ritual][blood renewal]

All of these damage dealers can have variations depending on the other team members. That is, keep in mind the overall team synergy.